Island Man

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Posts by Island Man

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  56

  Would You Outlaw Jehovah's Witnesses If You Had Your Way?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i still believe in freedom of religion even if i disagree with the beliefsof the religion.

  what about you?.

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  Island Man

  It is never the wise course to single out a particular cult for banning. Doing so only causes the govt. to fall into their persecution narrative. I think this is the best approach for dealing with cults:

  (1) Outlaw harmful practices, giving no exemptions on grounds of religious freedom. Examples: Make it criminal for any parent to refuse their child life-saving medical treatment in the absence of readily available effective alternatives. Make it criminal for any person in authority - corporate, religious or otherwise - to teach subordinates to refuse medical treatment to the death. Make it a hate crime for any authority to teach subordinates to shun any group of people whether by race, religion, organization membership ... whatever. Freedom of religion stops where it can be demonstrated that their practices are harmful physically or psychologically - without any exceptions. No special privileges in the name of religion!

  (2) Make it illegal for any organization - religious or otherwise - to have secret policies or secret rules that only a few at the top are privileged to see. All rules, guidelines, policies, etc that govern the operations of an organization must be publicly accessible. The only exceptions would be for confidential data about rank and file members and information related to physical security measures to deter theft and physical attack, etc. The only organizations that want to have secret rules are those that are intent on engaging in unethical or illegal practices.

  (3) Educate the population on critical thinking - from primary school to university. Make it as important as Math! Make this education mandatory in all schools! Avoiding this education by homeschooling is not an option! Also, educate the population about the deceitful and harmful actions of cults - without naming any one. Make this a rigorous, ongoing education campaign. This will essentially inoculate the public against cult indoctrination.

  In other words, employ legal measures to make it very difficult for cults to function and grow as cults, thus forcing them to abandon their cult traits or risk the leaders and those enforcing cult traits being arrested for criminal behavior.
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  43

  The "faithful slave" urges confession in latest Watchtower!

  by The Searcher in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  watchtower october 2017, page 11, par.

  17 - confess and abandon secret sins.

  some christians who have committed a serious sin try to cover it over in order to avoid embarrassing themselves or disappointing others.

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  Island Man

  "cover it over in order to avoid embarrassing themselves or disappointing others."

  LOL. Is that the really the real reason? Notice how they deceitfully omit to mention the true reason, namely, the cruel shunning that the cult imposes on those they deem as unrepentant sinners.
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  12

  Circuit overseer secret guidebook . 2016

  by TTaTT4U in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://drive.google.com/file/d/0b-sccw9wai0qrkdwuhdgcwetcfe/view.

  re: race.

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  Island Man

  I think OrphanCrow is on the right track. They probably want to know the race so that if it's a minority they can get an elder who belongs to the same minority, on the committee to head of any future allegations of racial discrimination.

  I also saw an application form for attending Ministerial Training School that also asks the applicants race. I think the reason for this is to ensure they can control the ethnic diversity on the campus so that they can always engineer the outward appearance of racial tolerance and diversity by having a mix. They big on outward appearances and creating a spectacle of love and peace and harmony for "the world" to see.
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  22

  A woman wearing a head covering in subjugation of men - absolutely mental

  by jambon1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  how did they ever get away with that and how does it go down now, in today's society?.

  its fucking mental.

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  Island Man

  I think the thinking is that a woman's hair is like a natural crown given her. But since a crown would also symbolize authority and women are supposed to be in subjection it wouldn't be fitting for them to be wearing a crown while praying or prophesying because then the crown would imply that they have equal or superior authority to any men around (because women have longer hair). So to avoid shaming the man by having a bigger crown than him while doing a manly role in his presence, the woman has to cover her crown - cover her hair. If she would not cover the crown - her hair - then she should shave it off.

  My personal speculation is that the idea that long hair represents authority could have come about by these ancient chauvinists observing that male lions have longer head hair and male chickens - roosters - have a bigger head thingy than the female hens. These observations of larger head pieces in these male animals may have caused them to associate bigger head pieces with authority since they tended to occur in male animal species. But when they noticed it in human females they decided to spin it as being merely a crown of beauty instead of a crown of authority because God wouldn't give women a crown of authority. But just to be on the safe side the women have to cover the head piece if doing a male role so that their crown of beauty can never be misinterpreted as a crown of authority.
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  22

  Who holds the Burden Of Proof?

  by stuckinarut2 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  when we as former witnesses wake up and choose to leave the society, it is mainly because we value truth and honesty.. the society tries to make out that we are in the wrong.

  that we have "left the truth".. but, who really holds the burden of proof?

  do we (who leave) need to prove that the society is not the "truth", or does the society need to prove that it is the "truth".. thoughts?.

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  Island Man

  The burden of proof always rests with the one making the claim, and especially if it's an extraordinary claim.

  However, JWs are so indoctrinated that they unashamedly throw logic, reason and critical thinking under the bus, calling it "worldly wisdom", "independent thinking", "satanic propaganda", etc, in their bid to defend their organization and its foolish teachings and policies at all cost. Sam Harris once made this statement (and I'm paraphrasing):

  "If someone does not value reason and logic, what logical argument can you use to demonstrate to them that they're wrong?"

  I think best way to reach a JW would have to be to first get them to see the value of logic and critical thinking - without bringing up their religion, or even the subject of religion at all. You have to get them interested in the subject of critical thinking and its value in helping one sift truth from fiction. Maybe you can do it in the context of avoiding scams by unscrupulous "worldly" con men and the spin of "worldly" politicians. Then maybe, you can talk about the psychology of those who fall for such scams - how they are denial and make all manner of ridiculous excuses even when shown evidence exposing the scam. You basically have to get them to learn how to spot BS and how to spot the BS excuses by those taken in. Then you can gradually shift over to looking at the members of false religion, highlighting all the kinds of fallacies and excuses that religious people give to defend their continued loyalty to false teachings and false religious organization.

  So first, you get the JW to value logic and critical thinking. Next you train him to spot the fallacious coping mechanisms the deceived people use when confronted with the possibility that they've been deceived. Then you relate it to the subject of false religion. Finally, if you think the JW is ready for it, you relate it to his own religion. But this final step is optional. If you do a good enough job with the previous ones, you can probably trust that the JW will figure out this last step on his own.

  So JWs have the burden of proof. But we have the burden of logically proving that fact to a group of people who value emotionalism and blind loyalty over logic.
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  21

  Watchtower Study June 18 from April 2017 issue

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  https://www.jw.org/en/publications/magazines/watchtower-study-april-2017/judge-of-all-earth-always-does-what-is-right/.

  the judge of all the earth always does what is right.

  intended as a confidence builder in the organization ..see what you think.. theme is from deuteronomy but it is really highlighting that passage in genesis where abraham had a dialogue with god, (gen.18) would god destroy sodom if 50 righteous men would perish?

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  Island Man

  The Judge Of All The Earth Always Does What Is Right
  

  ... except when he doesn't. Like when he condoned slavery - the owning of other human beings as property to be passed on as an inheritance in perpetuity. Like the killing of thousands of innocent first-born sons of the Egyptians for the sin of one stubborn Pharaoh whose heart was made stubborn by God for the express reason of having an excuse to plague the nation greatly so as to make a celebrated name for himself. Like the killing of millions of innocent animals and babies by drowning at the great flood. Like stipulating the gruesome and horrific punishment of being stoned to death for the comparatively mild sins like being a disobedient child or having sex outside of marriage.
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  5

  JWs Gullible & Delusional

  by TTaTT4U in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

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  Island Man

  Looking at pictures of the new compound in Warwick, I can't help but think that it looks very much like a prison compound, with the tower looking very much like a guard tower. Think too of the remote location outside the city. One almost gets the impression that it was built with the specific intent of being sold over to the New York Department of Corrections (or whatever the state's prison council is called) in the not too distant future.
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  32

  What was Jesus last name???

  by James Mixon in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  jesus in hebrew means "savior' and christ in greek means "messiah".

  these are identifiers --not names in jesus case.. where did the name christ come from, his parents???

  ?i can see the name jesus (first name) but christ.

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  Island Man

  Surnames weren't very common in Palestine back then. People mainly had just first names. The closest thing to a surname would be to refer to the person's father, profession or place of residence. So Jesus, if he was a real person, would have been called "Jesus Bar Joseph" (Jesus son of Joseph), "Jesus the Carpenter", "Jesus of Nazareth", etc.
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  15

  Far and away the best video I have seen explaining cults

  by jwfacts in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  this 5 minute ted video perfectly explains what a cult it.

  it does not mention jws, but perfectly aligns with them.

  it is put in a manner that would make some understand why jws are considered a cult.

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  Island Man

  "Far and away the best video I have seen explaining cults"

  Then you haven't seen bending truth by TheraminTrees:

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaUhR-tRkHY
  
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  20

  How many JWs would Disassociate if their were no family sanctions?

  by Chook in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i think the swamp would empty overnight .

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  Island Man

  I think at least 5% would disassociate. I don't think it would be as much as 50%. But I believe that about 50% would probably immediately stop shunning disassociated relatives, and that number would grow gradually until shunning of disassociated relatives ceases altogether or becomes just the aberrant behavior of an over-zealous minority.

  The thing to keep in mind is that there are other repercussions to disassociating, apart from shunning, and heavily indoctrinated Watchtower loyalists will impose these threats even without being prompted to do so by Watchtower. Some are employed with other JWs and risk losing their job. Some would still risk being disinherited. Some would risk being kicked out of the house. Some would risk being divorced on the trumped up grounds of "spiritual endangerment".

  For this to really do good, Watchtower would not only have to remove the shunning sanction, but actively teach JWs that it is wrong to shun disassociated ones or punish them in any way. Here's a scary thing to think about: Faced with legal pressure, Watchtower can officially put an end to their shunning policy tomorrow without there being any relief from shunning for X-JWs. They would just have to print something like this:

  "In the past God's people have been given repeated Bible-based counsel on the need to "quit mixing in company" with those who are unrepentant sinners, or who renounce their Christian dedication by written word or action. (scripture citations) However, today, more and more governments are concerned with enforcing human rights and rights to freedom of religion. Some interpret our faithful adherence to the scriptures' injunction on not associating with disfellowshipped and disassociated ones as being unduly strict to the point of violating human rights and freedom of religion. Hate laws once used to prevent the verbal incitement of hatred toward minority groups are now being used to restrict persons and organizations from publishing religious direction that the state deems as hateful and/or intolerant. ("framing trouble by decree" scripture citation) How should God's people respond to such developments? Jesus taught his followers to be "innocent as doves but cautious as serpents" (scripture citation). To this end, our publications will no longer feature the direction to quit associating with disfellowhipped or disassociated ones. We no longer give the direction to cease communication with such ones. Of course, true Christians know the Bible's direction on such matters and endeavor to follow their Bible-based conscience regardless of the direction or lack of direction given by any individual, government or organization. ("we must obey god as ruler rather than men" scripture citation)"